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Matilda NN[1, 2]

Female 1138 - 1176  (38 years)


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  • Name Matilda NN 
    Nickname Maud 
    Born 1138  Rycott, Oxfordshire, England OR Costow, Wiltshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christened Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Female 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of,Pleshey,Essex,England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Christening Also Of, Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Occupation Lady of Costow, co. Wilts. Find all individuals with events at this location 
    unknown 
    Died 1176  Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Notes 
    • {geni:about_me} ***PLEASE NOTE: This Maud, wife of Piers de Lutegareshale, is the "person usually known as Maud de Mandeville" although well-researched scholarship has concluded that her family name was NOT indeed "de Mandeville"--for this reason, PLEASE do not change her name back to De Mandeville or "Lady of Costow" but leave it with the NN in the surname field. However, you are encouraged to suggest merges with other profiles of Maud de Mandeville married to Piers de Lutegareshale. Thank you!! (Pam Wilson, Geni Curator Team, 9/1/2010)***

      Maud is very often reported to have been Maud de Mandeville, daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville and Rohese de Vere, but sources for this claim are not clear. Some trees give her title as "Lady of Costow" but these sources are not clear, either. The FMG Medieval Lands database by Crawley says that her parentage is unknown. To support this, the scholars on GEN-MEDIEVAL have concluded similarly.



      The following post-em by Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.com (shared by Pamela Johnson at http://amjancestry.com/I08154.html) clears up the reason why Maud is often mistaken for a daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville:

      Maud. Widow of Piers de Lutegareshale. Mother of Geoffrey fitz Piers earl of Essex [Ref: CP V:116 Table]

      Maud was not a de Mandeville. This error has been discussed several times on Gen-Medieval:

      Maud was not intended by this to be represented as Geoffrey's daughter, but this appears to be the genesis of this mistaken affiliation. As has been pointed out, it is clear that Geoffrey Fitz Piers came to hold Mandeville land, as well as the Earldom of Essex, through his wife, who was granddaughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville's sister. This is best seen by the fact that the land and titles descended to Bohun, to the exclusion of Geoffrey's son and male heir, John Fitz Geoffrey, son by a second wife. So, no Mandeville land can be shown to have been held by Piers, or by Geoffrey prior to his marriage; no Mandeville land descended to Geoffrey's (and hence Maud's) heir male; no document has been brought forward which claims Maud, wife of Piers, was a Mandeville; no daughter or sister of an Earl of Essex would have been allowed to marry such a lowly knight as Piers. No, Maud was not a Mandeville. [Ref: TAF 3 Apr 1998]

      Maud de Mandeville was not daughter of Geoffrey and Rohese. This comes from a misreading of the chart of Essex in CP. She is placed at the same level as Geoffrey's children, but there is no line connecting her with Geoffrey. Likewise, Piers was a local forester, and never would have been given the daughter of someone of Geoffrey's status. Even if it were true, her children would have been immediately elevated in status, but instead, Geoffrey Fitz Piers had to work his way up through the king's household service. He was a "new man", and not the grandson of an Earl. [Ref: TAF 19 Apr 1998]

      TAF = Todd A. Farmerie

      Also, Bill Marshall , someone I respect as a very thorough reseacher, lists on WorldConnect at:

      http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db=wtm& surname=A

      The mother of Geoffrey Fitz Piers was Maud, wife of Piers de Lutegareshale. As far as I have been able to determine, there was never any Maud de Mandeville at this point in the Mandeville pedigree until someone misread CP. I followed back the references cited by Weis/Sheppard Magna Carta Sureties (later repeated in AR7) and they all either say nothing of the sort, or else lead right to the CP Essex article. Nowhere in the text does it mention a Maud other than simply as wife of Piers, and there it does not call her Maud de Mandeville nor provide any evidence of a connection. In the associated chart, (and here's the rub) Piers, Maud, and her second husband are placed under the horizontal line which unites the children of Geoffrey de Mandeville. This would, at first glance, appear to show Maud as Geoffrey's daughter (this applies to Maud, but not Piers or his successor, because Maud is not given a surname). However, a closer look reveals that there is no vertical line dropping down from the horizontal to connect her with Geoffrey: Geoffrey de Mandeville.

      Regards,

      Curt

      Note: I have now seen the chart on CP V:116, and it certainly looks at first glance as if Maud is implied to be daughter of Geofrey de Mandeville, but on closer inspection there is no vertical line.

      Sources:

      1. Title: Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999

      Page: 159-2

      Text: Maud de Mandeville (in error)

      2. Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr., 1999

      Page: 246b-27

      Text: Maud, Lady of Costow, co. Wiltshire.

      3. Title: Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000

      Page: V:116 chart

      4. Title: Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, 5th Edition, 1999

      Page: 159-2

      Text: no date given
      --------------------
      Undocumented, possibly apocryphal.
    • Ancestral File Number: 8XJT-MK

      Maud [mother of Geoffrey Fitz Peter (or Piers), wife of Piers de Lutegareshale], Lady of Costow, co. Wilts. [Ancestral Roots]

      Maud de Mandeville [daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville by Rohese de Vere]; married (1) Piers de Lutegareshale; married (2) Hugh de Boclande, living 1176. [Magna Charta Sureties]

      Note: I have reversed the order of marriage which MCS has, because it certainly makes more sense according to the birthdates of the children. Both of Maud's husbands lived to be fairly old, making it very difficult, even doubtful, if she married both. I note that Ancestral Roots did not name her Maud de Mandeville (I think that the citation implies a prior marriage to someone from Costow, Wiltshire (possibly Hugh de Boclande?)), and that, according to Burke's Peerage, Geoffrey Fitz Piers did not use his mother's relationship to claim the Earldom of Essex. He used his wife, Beatrice de Say's descendancy from Beatrice de Mandeville sister of Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex. Thus, even though MCS clearly states her as Maud de Mandeville, daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville, I have my doubts.
    • Possibly born in Rycott, Oxford, England or Pleshey, Essex,England.[Custer February 1, 2002 Family Tree.FTW]

      [merge G675.FTW]

      Possibly born in Rycott, Oxford, England or Pleshey, Essex, England.
    • Source #1: Weis, pp. 213-214 - lady of Costow, Wiltshire.
    • Maud [mother of Geoffrey Fitz Peter (or Piers), wife of Piers de Lutegareshale], Lady of Costow, co. Wilts. [Ancestral Roots] Maud de Mandeville [daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville by Rohese de Vere]; married (1) Piers de Lutegareshale; married (2) Hugh de Boclande, living 1176. [Magna Charta Sureties]
      Note: I have reversed the order of marriage which MCS has, because it certainly makes more sense according to the birthdates of the children. Both of Maud's husbands lived to be fairly old, making it very difficult, even doubtful, if she married both. I note that Ancestral Roots did not name her Maud de Mandeville (I think that the citation implies a prior marriage to someone from Costow, Wiltshire (possibly Hugh de Boclande?)), and that, according to Burke's Peerage, Geoffrey Fitz Piers did not use his mother's relationship to claim the Earldom of Essex. He used his wife, Beatrice de Say's descendancy from Beatrice de Mandeville sister of Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex. Thus, even though MCS clearly states her as Maud de Mandeville, daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville, I have my doubts. (J Weber)
    • Maud [mother of Geoffrey Fitz Peter (or Piers), wife of Piers deLutegareshale], Lady of Costow, co. Wilts. [Ancestral Roots]

      Maud de Mandeville [daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville by Rohese deVere]; married (1) Piers de Lutegareshale; married (2) Hugh deBoclande, living 1176. [Magna Charta Sureties]

      Note: I have reversed the order of marriage which MCS has, because itcertainly makes more sense according to the birthdates of thechildren. Both of Maud's husbands lived to be fairly old, making itvery difficult, even doubtful, if she married both. I note thatAncestral Roots did not name her Maud de Mandeville (I think that thecitation implies a prior marriage to someone from Costow, Wiltshire(possibly Hugh de Boclande?)), and that, according to Burke's Peerage,Geoffrey Fitz Piers did not use his mother's relationship to claim theEarldom of Essex. He used his wife, Beatrice de Say's descendancyfrom Beatrice de Mandeville sister of Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earlof Essex. Thus, even though MCS clearly states her as Maud deMandeville, daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville, I have my doubts.

      -------------------------------

      The following post-em by Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@yahoo.comclears up the reason why Maud was mistaken for a daughter of Geoffreyde Mandeville by MCS:

      Maud. Widow of Piers de Lutegareshale. Mother of Geoffrey fitz Piersearl of Essex [Ref: CP V:116 Table]

      Maud was not a de Mandeville. This error has been discussed severaltimes on Gen-Medieval:

      Maud was not intended by this to be represented as Geoffrey'sdaughter, but this appears to be the genesis of this mistakenaffiliation. As has been pointed out, it is clear that Geoffrey FitzPiers came to hold Mandeville land, as well as the Earldom of Essex,through his wife, who was granddaughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville'ssister. This is best seen by the fact that the land and titlesdescended to Bohun, to the exclusion of Geoffrey's son and male heir,John Fitz Geoffrey, son by a second wife. So, no Mandeville land canbe shown to have been held by Piers, or by Geoffrey prior to hismarriage; no Mandeville land descended to Geoffrey's (and henceMaud's) heir male; no document has been brought forward which claimsMaud, wife of Piers, was a Mandeville; no daughter or sister of anEarl of Essex would have been allowed to marry such a lowly knight asPiers. No, Maud was not a Mandeville. [Ref: TAF 3 Apr 1998]

      Maud de Mandeville was not daughter of Geoffrey and Rohese. Thiscomes from a misreading of the chart of Essex in CP. She is placed atthe same level as Geoffrey's children, but there is no line connectingher with Geoffrey. Likewise, Piers was a local forester, and neverwould have been given the daughter of someone of Geoffrey's status.Even if it were true, her children would have been immediatelyelevated in status, but instead, Geoffrey Fitz Piers had to work hisway up through the king's household service. He was a "new man", andnot the grandson of an Earl. [Ref: TAF 19 Apr 1998]

      TAF = Todd A. Farmerie

      Also, Bill Marshall , someone I respect as avery thorough reseacher, lists on WorldConnect at:
      http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db=wtm& surname=A

      The mother of Geoffrey Fitz Piers was Maud, wife of Piers deLutegareshale. As far as I have been able to determine, there wasnever any Maud de Mandeville at this point in the Mandeville pedigreeuntil someone misread CP. I followed back the references cited byWeis/Sheppard Magna Carta Sureties (later repeated in AR7) and theyall either say nothing of the sort, or else lead right to the CP Essexarticle. Nowhere in the text does it mention a Maud other than simplyas wife of Piers, and there it does not call her Maud de Mandevillenor provide any evidence of a connection. In the associated chart,(and here's the rub) Piers, Maud, and her second husband are placedunder the horizontal line which unites the children of Geoffrey deMandeville. This would, at first glance, appear to show Maud asGeoffrey's daughter (this applies to Maud, but not Piers or hissuccessor, because Maud is not given a surname). However, a closerlook reveals that there is no vertical line dropping down from thehorizontal to connect her with Geoffrey: Geoffrey de Mandeville.
    • Maud de Mandeville was born circa 1138 at Pleshey, Essex, England.1 Marriage* She married first Piers de Lutegareshale.1,4,5 Marriage* She married second Hugh de Bocland .1,6,7 Living* She was living in 1176.7
      http://www.gordonbanks.com/gordon/family/2nd_Site/geb-p/p70.htm#i3473
    Person ID I6000000003146973360  Ancestors of Donald Ross
    Last Modified 17 Aug 2019 

    Family 1 Piers de Lutegareshale,   b. Abt 1134, Cherhill, Wiltshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 14 Jan 1180, Pleshy, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 46 years) 
    Married 1160  England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Children 
     1. Perronnelle Lutegareshale,   b. 1168,   d. 17 Oct 1198, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 30 years)
     2. Geoffrey FitzPiers, Earl of Essex,   b. Abt 1162, Saffron Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 14 Oct 1213  (Age ~ 51 years)
    Last Modified 14 Mar 2021 
    Family ID F6000000002459980766  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family 2 Hugh II de Bocland, Lord of Buckland, High Sheriff of Berkshire,   b. 1135, Buckland, Faringdon, Berkshire (now Oxfordshire), England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1176, Buckland, Faringdon, Berkshire (now Oxfordshire), England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 41 years) 
    Married Abt 1154  Pleshey, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Children 
     1. Hawise de Boclande,   b. 1157, Buckland, Faringdon, Berkshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 19 Jul 1233, Great Bromley, Essex, , England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 76 years)
    Last Modified 14 Mar 2021 
    Family ID F6000000002188746649  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart